Reporting on Infrastructure Investment

Heidi Crebo-Rediker, adjunct senior fellow in the Center for Geoeconomic Studies at CFR, discusses the state of American infrastructure since the passing of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), persistent vulnerabilities exposed by recent storms throughout the United States, and how the funds can help ensure a globally competitive U.S. economy. Wesley Muller, staff writer at the Louisiana Illuminator, speaks about his experiences covering infrastructure stories how and IIJA funds are being used in Louisiana. The host of the webinar is Carla Anne Robbins, senior fellow at CFR and former deputy editorial page editor at the New York Times. 

TRANSCRIPT

FASKIANOS: Thank you. Welcome to the Council on Foreign Relations Local Journalists Webinar. I’m Irina Faskianos, vice president for the National Program and Outreach here at CFR.

CFR is an independent and nonpartisan membership organization, think tank, and publisher focused on U.S. foreign policy. CFR is also the publisher of Foreign Affairs magazines. As always, CFR takes no institutional positions on matters of policy.

This webinar is part of CFR’s Local Journalists Initiative, created to help you draw connections between the local issues you cover and the national and international dynamics. Our programming puts you in touch with CFR resources and expertise on international issues and provides a forum for sharing best practices.

Thank you all for taking the time to join the discussion. This webinar, again, is on the record. The video and transcript will be posted on our website after the fact, at CFR.org/localjournalists.

We are pleased to have a distinguished panel with us today to talk about “Reporting on Infrastructure Investment.”

First, Heidi Crebo-Rediker is a senior fellow in the Center for Geoeconomic Studies at CFR. She specializes in international political economy, U.S. competitiveness, economic security, and international finance. Previously, she served in the Obama administration as the State Department’s first chief economist and in the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations as the chief of international finance and economics.

Wesley Muller is a staff writer at the Louisiana Illuminator, where he covers energy, economics, environment, and voting rights policy. Previously, he worked at WAFB Baton Rouge, the Sun Herald, and the Enterprise-Journal. And he has freelanced for the Times-Picayune.

Carla Anne Robbins is our host. She is a senior fellow at CFR and co-host of the CFR podcast The World Next Week, which I commend to all of you. She also serves as a faculty director of the Master of International Affairs Program and clinical professor of national security studies at Baruch College’s Marxe School of Public and International Affairs. And previously, she was deputy editorial page editor at the New York Times and chief diplomatic correspondent at the Wall Street Journal.

Thank you all for being with us for this conversation. I’m going to turn it over to Carla to have a conversation amongst the three of you and then we will open up to all of you for your questions, comments, and again to share tips with each other. So, Carla, over to you.

ROBBINS: Irina, thank you so much. And I want to thank Heidi and Wes for joining us today. This is a great topic, and it’s a particularly good topic because there’s lots of money involved in it and I’ve always felt that as a reporter—(laughs)—in my years as a reporter, particularly in Washington, that anything that has money attached to it makes for great reporting.

So, Heidi, can we start with you? And can we just start with a definition of the basic term? Infrastructure’s such a—such a daunting term itself, and it’s also a punchline for all those years of covering the Trump administration. (Laughs.) Is it infrastructure week yet? So what is infrastructure? And also, what’s critical infrastructure?

CREBO-REDIKER: So, I mean, it’s a great—it’s a great question. And I think, you know, people think about the traditional roads, and bridges, and airports, and ports, and things when they think about their first thought about infrastructure, but it really—it’s much, much broader. And I think in the context of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, the definition was taken even more broadly.

So, you know, the core of the funding does go to rail, and transit, and broadband, and, like, energy, and grids, and ports, and airports, and roads, and drinking water, and wastewater, and also to resilience. So resilience meaning against climate issues, against—weather resilience for weather—critical weather events, and also for cyber resilience. And also, I think, interestingly, a lot of the new technology that’s coming out to enable some of the—some of the more—some of the better innovations, particularly in the energy sector but also, you know, in water as well. So, you know, pretty, pretty broad in terms of a definition.

ROBBINS: And this—do they call it the IIJA? Do people use that, or was this just the—

CREBO-REDIKER: So in Congress they call it the IIJA. In the executive branch, the White House calls it the bipartisan infrastructure law. So, you know, you hear it, you know, referred to as both, but it really just depends on who you’re talking to. They’re the same thing.

ROBBINS: And that’s because they’re holding onto the bipartisan aspect with sort of bloodied fingernails because there’s so little that is bipartisan left in this—(laughs)—

CREBO-REDIKER: This was a huge triumph that they got—that they got this done. It had been in the works for a really long time. Again, you already started with the it’s infrastructure week again. But I mean, this has been, like, hard-fought bipartisan for years and decades, and it finally got over the—over the hurdle in November 2021.

ROBBINS: And in part because it was the money needed to be spent to stimulate the economy in terms of COVID, and in part because infrastructure was—I mean, every time a bridge would fall down we’d get one of those terrible ratings from the American Society of Civil Engineers. And we were always, you know, in the D, the D-plus, the C-minus realm of it. But it was bipartisan in a—in a limited way. Why do you think the bill passed?

CREBO-REDIKER: So, you know, there—this has been a bipartisan issue for a very long time. And I think, you know, the reports from the American Society of Civil Engineering, they’ve been out there, sort of whether they’ve been Ds or D-pluses or Cs in different sectors of infrastructure. I mean, the poor grades are well known to people who focus on this area.

But I think a lot of it came down to competitiveness. We really—we got to a point where it was—it was about driving smart investment for competitiveness, and productivity, and efficiency, and resilience, and jobs coming out of COVID as well, but also, you know, the bridges falling. It’s a safety—it’s a safety issue. You know, you just remember bridge after bridge falling, and it was supposed to be a great moment of coming together, and it never happened. So I think we’re really—I think we’re lucky that it happened. It happened with strong bipartisan support.

And again, to your original point, there’s a lot of money involved. So why are we talking about it here? It’s because a lot of money has gone out the door over the past almost three years, and I think it’s gone to a lot of good projects. But it’s worth knowing people on the ground care about their infrastructure.

ROBBINS: So, Wes, you pointed us to a map that the White House has provided which we will share with everyone. So the White House shows us—I mean, the numbers are sort of staggering; this is more than a trillion dollars. And they are everything from transportation investments in roads, bridges, public transit, ports, and airports; but also for cyber, and Heidi’s going to talk more about that; and just a variety of things—for schools, for electric buses, for, you know, just all—charging stations, all sorts of things that are involved in this.

In Louisiana, do you notice it? Do you feel it? When you—are you covering it? How much does—

MULLER: Yeah.

ROBBINS: And how aware of—well, let’s start with that first, first thing.

MULLER: Yes, definitely it is noticeable. And as you mentioned the map earlier, so any other journalists in attendance, it’s a useful tool. The link is in the chat. You can pull up an interactive map, go down to your state, to your location, and you can see what infrastructure—IIJA funds have been allocated to which projects.

And as I was saying previously, which you didn’t hear, but no matter what your beat is in journalism you can very likely find something to write about with regards to the infrastructure law because so much of—the funding covers so many different areas, you know, from health care to education. There are infrastructure projects pertaining to so many different areas of society.

So we have tons of things going on in Louisiana. One of the most successful infrastructure programs to come out of this law has been the rural broadband expansion. And this state has been ranked the top in the country for how it is handling the rollout of the infrastructure funds. And lots of communities that did not have high-speed internet access a couple years ago, they have it now. And that has been huge. It’s made a big difference for kids going to school and being able to do homework and research while at home.

Aside from that, you know, there’s tons of funding going into climate resilience projects. We have river diversion projects going on, you know, with the Mississippi River, trying to rebuild Louisiana’s coastal wetlands. And just many, many other things, from electric vehicle chargers, you know, to school buses. So I guess that’s an earful.

ROBBINS: So what’s your favorite story that you’ve written about it so far?

MULLER: So I’ve covered a lot of the broadband expansion and the—a lot of the energy-related projects. There has been—although Louisiana’s done a great job with broadband, they haven’t done a great job with other things such as the electric vehicle infrastructure. And Louisiana’s not alone with that. There are a lot of states that have been really slowly making use of these funds. And there are different reasons for that, but as I said, you know, as a journalist those are just—you know, just a few of the areas that you can explore, is how your state or your city council is taking advantage of the funding opportunities.

ROBBINS: So I want to talk to Heidi about resilience in a minute, but I do want to get into this. So let’s talk about the electric vehicle charging, which you wrote a story about how it’s moving slowly. So how did you figure that out? Where was the information? I mean, you must have a looked on a map and said there’s money here in the state for this. So who did you go to to figure out that it wasn’t moving as fast as one might expect? Was that something you had to start in Washington and then come to Louisiana for, did you have to go to the statehouse for? Where did you get your information for that?

MULLER: So I believe I had—one of the electric vehicle industry organizations sent me an email saying, hey, you should do a story, you know, why aren’t the state using this funding, you know. We want chargers out there and—(laughs)—it’s not being done.

ROBBINS: (Off mic.)

MULLER: So I said, OK. So I looked at it, and you know, sure enough, they were just not—either not applying for the grants—because, you know, the way—the way it works is, you know, Congress allocates the funding and they say, OK, so much is available for each state. And then one of the state agencies has to devise a plan, and I think they were—they are calling them alternative fuel corridor plan. And basically, you know, the engineers, the transportation officials, they draw up a map and they say, OK, this is where we could put the chargers; you know, we can line them up along these highways. And then they have to persuade or help locals and, you know, companies apply to the state and convince the state, you know, why they should get the grant money to, you know, build the chargers.

So the states, and you know—and it’s for various reasons, have fallen behind. I think a lot of it has to do with the price of gasoline. You know, it’s—we’re no longer under the pressure that we were under back in 2021 when gasoline prices were much higher. So, you know, I think that has a large effect on it.

ROBBINS: So it is that it’s the states actually have to—have to—the money will come, but the states actually have to—have to be proactive and look for it.

So, Heidi, you’ve written about the resilience and about cyber. Can we talk about cyber first and then just talk—

CREBO-REDIKER: But can I—can I just chime in on the—on the last question?

ROBBINS: Absolutely.

CREBO-REDIKER: Because I think that’s such an—what Wes—it is such an excellent point. There are pots of money that are available. It’s not just that there’s sort of formula funding that states have access to; it’s that there are competitive grants as well. And so 90 percent of the funding that’s coming out of all of—all of this federal money is going to be deployed by state and nonfederal partners. So state and local government plays a huge, huge role in this, and what we—what we found in the—in the past with conversations with some state and local government officials is that they don’t have the capacity in house to actually put the engineering designs together or the applications together, which can be complicated, and they might not even know that the money’s out there.

So one thing that is potentially very beneficial is to say, well, look, what money’s out there, and why have you not gone for it? And it can be on a whole range of different—of different things, whether it’s—whether it’s EV charging, or for bridge reconstruction, or for building resilience. A lot—a lot of the funding that’s still there is just open for competitive bids. And so I would, like, encourage everybody to go and dig into what’s available for the state and localities that you’re in and say, well, you know, we could get this; what do we need to do to get there?

ROBBINS: So you’re saying that the money is not—it’s not being apportioned based on state population and it’s not being apportioned based on the lobbying of your state representative, and you have to have the creativity and the foresight and the technical competence of your state government or your county government to actually put together an application. Is it—

CREBO-REDIKER: Exactly.

ROBBINS: There’s nobody in Washington who’s sitting around and making sure that it isn’t just sort of the city slickers up in New York who are getting all the money?

CREBO-REDIKER: So that’s exactly what we—at the Council, what Irina and I were doing with state and local government official webinars that we were doing, basically that; saying: OK, here are the different resources that are out there for you. You know, reach out to universities. They know how to put grant applications together. Basically, try and convene resources that know how to do this, because I, you know, just in terms of my home state have watched, you know, the old bridge that goes to my home—a very, very big, important bridge, and it was—it was built in—between 1933 and 1935, and it was right on the top of that list of bridges that needed to get—that needed to get repaired. And right, you know, the day after the bill—the bill was signed into law, you had all the Massachusetts officials lining up. They’re ready to go with the same project, with the application, with everything good to go. Bridge got the money. You know, everything got done. Canal was repaired. And the Sagamore Bridge is now, you know, a very well-functioning, sturdy bridge again.

I very much—I was very concerned at the time that, like, every other state that didn’t have the wherewithal to be as fast on the mark to get the funding that was out there for competitive—for competitive bids was actually doing that as aggressively. (Laughs.) And so we found that that was absolutely the case.

So going through—and there’s a lot of transparency in the money that’s there, where it’s allocated, projects that have been done, and where the pools are still left to access. So, you know, it should be pretty—it should be easier to dig down that story than some others out there with dealing with the federal government.

MULLER: In some—

ROBBINS: Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead, Wes.

MULLER: I was just going to say the—that for the electric vehicles, you know, some states are doing it very well; you know, they’ve taken advantage. I think that the deadline to submit their plans was back in fall of 2022. So we’re going on two years now, and you know, Louisiana made the excuse that they—you know, they’re trying to figure out a contracting mechanism to use the money. And you know, I don’t know how legitimate an excuse—(laughs)—that is. You know, other states have, you know, not only applied for, but they’ve actually received the money, and have been building, and have built the chargers already, and we’re still trying to figure out how to spend the—you know, how to spend the money if we do receive it.

So there’s definitely some journalistic angles to pursue no matter where you are. And you know, I’ll drop a link to my story if you want to read it and get an example.

CREBO-REDIKER: And some good information is also built—I mean, you put the invest.gov information out there, but there’s another website for the—for the bipartisan infrastructure law called build.gov, and it basically links into all the future contracts that are out there for competitive bid for money and how much, you know, today. So I would encourage you go to there as well.

ROBBINS: So we have a question, before we move on. Debra Krol has—from Arizona—has written quite a good question. But, Debra, do you want to ask the question?

Q: Sure. (Laughs.) Thanks for taking my question. Deb Krol from the Arizona Republic.

Been to several of your workshops in person, and one of them did pique my interest on this very subject about the barriers that small communities and tribes face in getting these funds, and so we went and found an NPO here in Arizona that’s doing that work. And I guess my question is, is—have we—have anyone here identified any other nonprofits or universities that are doing these types of programs? And if they’re in the Southwest, I’d love to write about them, so.

CREBO-REDIKER: So there are links on the build.gov site to all of the technical assistance resources. I think—I think that—I think Bloomberg actually funded a group that is—that’s available for the—to provide technical assistance. But there are certainly a lot of them out there.

One of the major objectives of the—of this whole bill was equity and actually making sure that the benefits did not just go to rich states, but they were—that there was equity that was involved in the distribution of the funding, particularly to disadvantaged communities. And the nut to crack is, OK, well, they are the same communities that don’t have the resources to put in the proposals in the first place. So, yeah, I think that there I would, again, go to build.gov and to the technical resources available.

ROBBINS: So, Heidi, can we—that’s usually helpful, and one would think that just going to your local university—which I’m sure that Debra’s already done—but just going to your local university and talking to the same people who do civil engineering or talking to people who do public policy, there must be people who are—who are somewhat focused on this. Or people who work on sustainability, I mean, they must have some sense even if they’re tearing their hair out and saying why—(laughs)—why are my local—why is my local government not doing a better job at this. And that’s something that, you know, we as journalists can do.

MULLER: Another easy coverage angle, if you were looking for something to write about as far as the broadband expansion goes, ask: Has your state government established a state office of broadband? That’s the first step that they need to do in order to secure that funding, and it’s just a very simple thing. You know, the state legislature writes up a simple bill, establish—you know, it doesn’t even need to be funded, but they just establish a state office of broadband. Ours began with one person and I think still only has a handful of employees. But it was established way back in, I think, 2017, before the infrastructure law even dropped, because they—you know, from what they say, they could foresee where it was going to end up that, you know, the federal government was going to eventually start funding broadband expansion.

And you know, like, as far as equitable access, you know, in Louisiana you can throw a rock and you can hit a rural—we have parishes here—rural parish with that—you know, it’s underfunded in so many different areas, particularly education. And access to high-speed internet plays a significant role in education.

ROBBINS: So, Heidi, you have written about—and please, Debra jumped in, and please jump in with questions along the way here. I’m going to throw it open more generally, but if we have questions right at this—at the moment, even better.

Heidi, you’ve written about national security and the impact of this legislation on that. Can you talk some more about that?

CREBO-REDIKER: Sure. So there was a pot of money that was actually not so insignificant—it was $50 billion—that was allocated towards resilience, and that definition of resilience—the first time that we’ve ever seen anything that doesn’t necessarily fit into a particular federal agency or to be doled out to any particular local office of broadband in government. But it’s for climate resilience, extreme weather resilience like drought for canals, rising sea levels or flooding, and water shortages or how to deal with them, heat overpowering power grids.

But one important part of this is cyber. And because we are the Council on Foreign Relations, I pay a lot of attention to some of the overlapping risks between critical infrastructure and cyber. And because we also in the U.S., we don’t have—I mean, the state doesn’t own all the infrastructure. You know, our—you know, think of—think of any kind of, like, your—you know, your telecommunications, or your energy companies, or you know, pipeline companies, they’re private. And so it’s—the first major push that took money from this—from the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act actually went to solve a challenge which we found in the national security space, which is that 80 percent of the ship-to-shore cranes operating in the United States are actually made by one state-owned company in China, and that the FBI uncovered some serious security risks when they unpacked a container in Baltimore that had one of these cranes. And these aren’t, like, dumb old-style cranes; these are very, you know, very high-tech. They are—they have sensing, and then software updates come from China, and the data is all, you know, stored and managed out of China. And these ports are also next to our military bases in many—in many cases. And so it doesn’t—it wasn’t just a matter of having a cyber risk with 80 percent of our cranes; it’s that it showed every element of the trade that was coming in and out of all those ports, as well as the naval operations that were—that were adjacent.

So 20 billion (dollars) of the funds went to—went to actually, over the next five years, investing in an onshoring initiative, together with a Japanese company, to start building—start manufacturing these cranes in the United States. And then there were—there were new rules and regulations that required a minimum—a minimum level of reporting and compliance for cyber to protect against any kind of hacking.

At the same time, in terms of the broader issue, the FBI also disclosed that there was a Chinese cyber hacking—(laughs)—company called Volt Typhoon. Volt Typhoon, they found that there—they had on our networks in critical infrastructure—and that includes communications, energy, transportation, water, and wastewater—that Volt Typhoon had been existing and sort of looming in the networks for the past five years., and with the pre-positioning for the intention to disrupt functions in the future. So this is actually a geopolitical question.

And where’s the funding going to come from? Well, this is part of the resilience that they were talking about. And I think, given where—given where some of the vulnerabilities are going to be in those critical infrastructure sectors, this is something I could see in the future where we’re going to have to fund more.

MULLER: Yeah. Heidi, when I read your piece, you know, I actually started to wonder. It’s like, well, you know, Louisiana has several shipping ports, some big ones. So are they using some cranes that came from China that have, you know, intelligence-gathering software? So I, you know, texted a legislator that I know, and you know—you know, he has no idea, but he said—(laughter)—he knows—he knows some people that are—you know, work at the ports; he’s going to try to find out. But it just kind of exemplifies, you know, the fact that this is just a very underreported area, cybersecurity in general, as well as shipping ports, you know. Because, you know, I don’t—you might be able to answer this, but you know, I don’t know who regulates, you know, the purchasing of cranes at shipping ports, you know. Is that done by individual companies, or is it the port board or commissioners or—and is it local? Is it federal? You know, just a lot of questions that journalists, you know, need to know or need to find out.

CREBO-REDIKER: Well, the good thing is that there is—it’s part—part of the Department of Homeland Security has something—has a—has a sub-agency that does look at and communicate with the port operators and the operators of the—of the cranes. And so they have—you know, there’s been an ongoing, you know, conversation about how do you actually ensure the cyber safety, and it’s been in collaboration with the Coast Guard. So it’s called the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency, and it’s—again, they work together with the FBI very closely, but that also with regard to the ports there is deep communication.

There’s also a lot of pushback because not long ago, a few months ago, the Biden administration also slapped a 25 percent tariff on Chinese-manufactured cranes. And so since, you know, 200 of these cranes are already operating in the U.S.—it’s 80 percent of our—of our ship-to-shore cranes—and they have new ones that have been on order, does that suddenly push up the price 25 percent on all the cranes that are coming over the next couple of years? Because these are deep, you know, capital investments that the ports made.

So it’s sort of like it’s complicated and sort of hard to—I think it’s a work in progress, but certainly worth covering.

MULLER: And why are these ports, you know, just now realizing, hey, maybe we shouldn’t rely on China for all this critical software and hardware?

CREBO-REDIKER: I think people just weren’t thinking about it. I mean, they bought it—they bought the—I mean, this company has a 75 percent global market share on ship to—they just literally—it’s a deep market concentration for this Chinese crane manufacturer, and so people just didn’t think about it. It was a cheap crane that worked well.

MULLER: It was bottom-line thinking.

CREBO-REDIKER: So—

ROBBINS: Well, and that sort of goes to this whole debate over tariffs right now, I mean, this question about bad for the economy, bad for climate, market penetration question, how dependent do you want to get—there’s a whole national security versus climate versus economic debate, given how the Chinese are dominating, you know, pretty fundamental markets. But that’s for another Local Journalists—(laughter). I mean, there are fundamental tradeoffs here when you consider the level of penetration. I mean, you know, the Europeans are weighing right now whether or not to—you know, about to decide next week whether or not to put pretty big tariffs—not as big as the ones we have, but then we don’t buy electric vehicles from the—from the Chinese—on Chinese—I think they’ve got like a third of the market in Europe, and they’re weighing whether to—whether to do it to—for unfair practices. And we’re basically trying to keep them out of the market altogether. And these are questions—I mean, they make things really cheaply and they subsidize things in an enormous way. You want to keep them out of the market? You want to create a trade war? You want to keep their batteries out of here? They’re very good for—very good for climate considerations. These are—these are—there’s a lot of tradeoffs here to think about, but at the same time do you really want their smart stuff in our system? These are—these are hard things.

So we have a question here from—oh, where did the question go? From—this is from Mr. Robert Chaney from the Missoulian newspaper. He’s in a—he’s in a loud space, so I’m going to read it. He’s the natural resources and environment editor from the Missoulian: Is there a Biden administration sunset deadline where money must be allocated/committed before the end of 2024? How secure are these allocations to administration change?

CREBO-REDIKER: So I don’t know of the actual deadlines. I think there’s a real push to get certain pools of funding out the—out the door. But again, for the competitive grants, they’re sort of listed on the—you know, on that website. And given the bipartisan nature of this—of wanting to have infrastructure rebuilt and the funds deployed, don’t know if the Biden administration would see that these funds would necessarily be at risk if there were a change to—if President—if former President Trump won. But there are a lot of the energy-related funds that are kind of comingled with Inflation Reduction Act funds where I think there is a lot more pressure to get the funding out the door because, you know, if you’re upgrading the grid in order for the grid to be able to take on more wind and solar and other—you know, other types of clean energy, it’s all kind of connected. And so, you know, to the—to the extent that there is any pressure, I think it’s more on IRA funds than it is on the—on the infrastructure funds.

MULLER: Yeah. There are some deadlines within, like, the individual grant programs, like application deadlines, but I don’t think it’s anything, like, bigger as far as—or this act is going to expire. Like, the funding—

ROBBINS: Sunsets—

MULLER: —secured with this act, you know, it’s not going to expire.

And, you know, you’ve got to think about like an administration change, a new president will come in and say, oh, we’re going to pull all of this money that, you know, the whole country thought that it was going to have. It’s not a very popular thing to do, and I would think, you know—

ROBBINS: Well, I want to pursue that. I want to talk a little bit about the politics of this, which is do people in Louisiana know where the money is coming from?

MULLER: No. (Laughs.)

ROBBINS: So that’s the first question. Do they know that this is the result of, you know, a Biden administration triumph, finally got something bipartisan through? Do people think it’s just one more pot of waste, fraud, and abuse? I mean, is this even part of a political debate there?

MULLER: You know, not unless you are plugged in or, you know, a political junkie. I would say the average Joe has no clue what the IIJA is, or the IRA is, and I think that they have no idea what kind of projects are being built or where their new high-speed internet has come from. And that’s just kind of the nature of the times that we live in, I would say.

There are—you know, this is another story angle you might—you know, someone can pursue is do you have any Republican members of Congress in your state’s congressional delegation, and did they vote for the IIJA. And, you know, go and find the ones that didn’t and, you know, scour through their Twitter profile and see if they, you know, have mentioned any of the funding coming into their district and, you know, tried to claim credit for it. Those always make pretty good stories, to say, you know, so and so is claiming credit for, you know, a law that he voted against.

ROBBINS: HypocrisyRUs, yes.

But Heidi, you’re an experienced Washington—both executive branch and Hill player. Do you think that the Biden administration has failed to adequately politically take the political credit for this? I know that they have, in Michigan, talked about replacing the pipes and all that, but do you think that they’ve—I mean, maybe in Louisiana they figure it’s—they’re never going to win there anyway, so they haven’t done a lot of ribbon cutting there. Do you think that they’ve leveraged this politically enough?

CREBO-REDIKER: So I think that there is a dichotomy. One is how do you communicate that this actually came out of the funding for the projects that people care a lot about on the ground, actually originated from this piece of legislation under the Biden administration because if you go—like when I go to my hometown, and they’re—you know, they’re doing it—they’re ripping out all of the—they’re putting town sewage in to replace everybody’s, you know, septic system, and they’re going to put the broadband lines along—it’s sort of like dig once. And it’s like a big deal. Everybody talks—everyone is talking about it, everyone is excited about it. They want to participate in it. And nobody knows that it’s actually part of the bipartisan infrastructure legislation. It’s just like there is this massive disconnect, and I give the Biden administration a lot of credit for going out and trying to sort of highlight, particularly the bigger projects that were funded, or even go to, you know, hometowns—(laughs)—and say, you know, we’re really glad that everyone is happy that they now have town sewage. I mean, it’s sort of like it’s—but there’s this—there’s like a big disconnect in communicating that this was a major, major win, that people’s lives are improved dramatically as a result of the funding.

So I’m not sure how to make that work better. I do think that they tried; I just—I think that there is just a real—there’s a gap.

MULLER: Yeah, it’s like—it’s weird branding issue, or a failure to brand. I’m just thinking, you know, like historical photos of the Works Progress Administration, you know, back in FDR’s days. And, you know, like every project had like that sign, “WPA,” everywhere. And it’s like we don’t—we don’t see any like road signs or anything like that.

So I—you know, maybe they—it’s just—I don’t know, maybe it’s just not a priority for them, or they think that they can, you know, do it some other way. I have no idea.

ROBBINS: But Wes—

CREBO-REDIKER: This is exactly right. The local politicians are taking credit because every time there is a ribbon cutting, that’s where you want to be, where there’s something new that opens up that you’ve done for your constituents. It’s just very hard for the federal government to make that same kind of communication.

ROBBINS: I don’t think it would be hard. I think, as Wes said, I think you could—a good graphic artist could have come up with the—

CREBO-REDIKER: Logo.

ROBBINS: —twenty-first century logo that’s comparable to the WPA, and they could have—I mean, you see this all the time. I mean, you know, the—you see it everywhere; you know, state governors taking credit for all sorts of things. And that would have been—given all that money that’s there, that wouldn’t have been a really particularly hard thing to do, which you really sort of wonder about, which then goes to the next question, which is Louisiana is an incredibly vulnerable state environmentally to weather, and so climate resilience is part of this, and also on the IRA.

Are people aware of the money that’s going in and projects that are going in, and are they more skeptical of a project like that because of skepticism having to do with climate change, or are they—is the state applying for enough money for climate resilience, or have politics gotten in the way, or—

MULLER: I think—I think the—I think people are, you know, a little bit more aware of the climate resilience funding just because everyone is impacted by the hurricanes here. And we just saw last week, Hurricane Francine came through and, you know, one of the big news stories or just kind of like talk among local officials and state officials was the electrical grid hardening upgrades that have, you know—they’ve been doing over the last few years, and it really paid off because they had some areas of the state on the coast that lose electricity every time a storm comes through, and this was the first time ever that these areas did not have any power outage at all.

And then the areas that did have power outages were very quickly restored within, you know, twenty-four to forty-eight hours, so that was kind of—and that’s something that affects everybody. You know, when the power goes out and then, you know, comes back on kind of quickly, it’s like, oh, well, that’s different, you know. What happened, you know? So I think that is—that’s one that’s kind of hard for regular folks to ignore.

And the other question, you know, has politics gotten in the way—as far—there are certain issues in Louisiana that are kind of off limits to partisanship. And, you know, one of those is like coastal restoration, and that’s something that pretty much—you know, I don’t know of any politicians that are voting against funding for coastal restoration. It’s a big—it’s a big deal, and there is a ton of money that’s coming through from the infrastructure law specifically for that as well as all kinds of different projects related to it.

We have some figures here—I don’t know if you all are interested, but the coastal restoration, the climate resilience, and those things cover everything from I would say the grid hardening to funding for first responders, like emergency operation centers. Last week when I was on the ground covering the hurricane, I walked into the Terrebonne Parish emergency operations center, and I was so surprised by the level of organization. They had this room with probably seventy-five people in there just working away, fielding calls, and routing services—dispatching services all across the parish, everything from I’m running low on medication, to there’s a tree in my—blocking my driveway. And so I was pretty—I was just kind of surprised at that level of organization and, you know, I know that they got a lot of funding to sort of beef up their emergency operations, so yeah, I think it’s—you know, the money has been put to good use for the most part but, you know, awareness of where it’s coming from, not so much.

ROBBINS: So I want to—I mean, people have been jumping in, but I really want to invite you all to jump in with questions as well as tell us if you are covering anything having to do with infrastructure, either the legislation and the money that’s coming in, or just if you are covering anything that has to do with infrastructure in your—in your locality, or if you have any questions about how to shape a story, or advice to other people about how to shape a story, or sourcing. Please join us. We only have a few more minutes, and I would just—we’ve got expertise here, and you guys have expertise to share as well, with each other and with us.

Heidi, if I were going to—Washington seems pretty overwhelming. If I were going to—want to figure out, beyond looking at the maps and all of that, where would I go for information on this?

CREBO-REDIKER: So it depends on what type of infrastructure because you can get in touch with individual agencies, but I guess, you know, go to state and local—go to some of the congressmen and senators offices, and just ask them to provide the information because they will have constituent services that include good outreach to press.

If they—again, to the point we were talking about earlier, they’re going to want to take credit for anything happening in the state that’s good, and so that would be a good place to start.

ROBBINS: And, you know, Homeland Security is focused on cyber, and you said it was focused on ports. Anything else that Homeland Security does that falls within this?

CREBO-REDIKER: So they actually provide an enormous amount of information on their website. Again, it’s called the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency, and it’s part of the Department of Homeland Security. And again, they do a huge amount of outreach. If you get in touch with them, they will get right back to you. They are very—they’re very, very user friendly, and their whole—you know, part of their mission is to get the message out about, you know, what are the best practices for protecting critical infrastructure from cybersecurity threats. And so they are very much in information-providing mode.

ROBBINS: And Wes, for you, what are your go-to sources in Louisiana? I mean, you talked about the automakers—they reached out to you, not surprisingly. You were talking about a legislator who you are texting. Is there—are there a few central repositories in the state government, or is it county government? Where do you go for information? Is there one particular conduit for this money that you are looking at, or—

MULLER: So I’ll typically go to Department of Transportation for anything having to do with transportation, like roads, bridges, you know, electric vehicles, things like that. And I will go to—we have the Governor’s Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness. They are the ones that, you know—they’ve got, I think, $10 million in cybersecurity funding. They did not respond to my emails, so I still have been trying to find out what they are doing with that money, if anything.

And then—but there are also organizations that—like non-profit organizations that, you know, are receiving some of this money as well. You know, we have the Community Lighthouse Project here in Louisiana, which is using some of this infrastructure funding, and they are building microgrids in New Orleans and other areas, and these are, you know, like churches, and different large buildings, you know, all around the city with solar panels, and emergency communications equipment, little medical centers, and they’re basically to serve as a refuge when a storm comes through or disaster strikes, and the power is out and, you know, communications are out, and everything else.

They lit up last week during the hurricane, and so there are non-profits that are basically spearheading that, even before the government got involved—you know, they started building this. You know we have the organizations that are trying to secure money for passenger rail, which, you know, I think is kind of a—it’s kind of a big, longshot, I think. I don’t know if it’s going to happen but, you know, those are great. They’re usually very responsive to media requests, you know, as non-profits because they really want to do the work, and they want to see the projects completed.

ROBBINS: So—

MULLER: The Sierra Club, that’s one that has—

ROBBINS: —which are tree huggers, right? (Laughs.) I’m just kidding.

So last thoughts from—I’m going to—from you, Heidi, and then I’m going to give Wes the last word.

CREBO-REDIKER: So when—so story—I think we hit a lot of good stories. The technology and sort of the future ability to have efficiency is something we didn’t talk about, but I guess my final words would be, for decades of my focusing on infrastructure and trying to highlight the importance of it for all of the good reasons we talked about, I’m so pleased that there is a journalist forum on infrastructure and trying to get you all to dig into stories about it because people used to say, you know, boring. (Laughter.) Don’t talk to me about infrastructure. I’m like, you know, it’s really important. So I’m glad that everyone is focused on it. It is really important, and it’s going to be more important in the future to make sure that we are competitive, that we are safe, that we do provide jobs, and that we protect our national security through things that we hadn’t really thought we were exposed to before.

ROBBINS: Wes, last thought to you.

MULLER: Yeah, so they say that this is a once-in-a-generation law that was passed, so we’ll probably never see anything like it in the future. And, you know, I think that the press has just scratched the surface really, and the stories that can be found in the funding or lack of funding. You know, there is—for example, just look at where projects are being sited. Look into who owns the land and, you know, you can just find some very interesting things.

You know, there was a—like a direct carbon—direct air capture facility being built in Louisiana, and it has coincidentally been sited on, you know, a very wealthy landowner’s property, so just things like that, you know. Are your local schools taking advantage of the money for electric school buses? So the—you know, you can really kind of go in so many different directions with it.

ROBBINS: So potential for good, but also potential for waste, fraud and abuse, which—

MULLER: Yes.

ROBBINS: —is always the case when there is lots of money, so—both of which are great potential for stories.

Well, I just want to thank Wes, and I want to thank Heidi. This was really great. So it may not be infrastructure week, but it was certainly infrastructure afternoon, and we will share—and I will turn it back to Irina—we’ll share everything that you guys cited, and this was a great conversation. Thank you both so much.

FASKIANOS: Yes, I second that to Heidi Crebo-Rediker and Wes Muller, and of course, you, Carla Anne Robbins. You can follow them on X at @heidirediker, at @wesleymuller, and at @robbinscarla.

And we encourage you to visit CFR.org/election2024, where we are offering a wide range of non-partisan information and analysis to help voters better understand the critical foreign policy issues at stake in the upcoming U.S. election, which is not that far away. And we also ask you to send us your ideas for topics and speakers. You can email us at [email protected].

So again, thank you all for being with us today. We appreciate that and hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

MULLER: Thank you.

CREDO-REDIKER: Thanks so much.

MULLER: I enjoyed it.

ROBBINS: Thanks.

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